One game that the young, pissed off, or just plain annoying people, do is to twist words and take them out of context to make "new" meanings.
Jews were just stereotyped by misinformation, considered inferior, then tried to be eliminated. Macs have the same exact platform problems." - David K. Every.
Sounds pretty bad, huh? So why don't we compare it to what was really said, and in what context. [This has been edited for brevity and clarity -- there were also many different questions and threads from different sources].
After a lot of comments about how eliminating the Macs is fine, and Mac users should be driven out of comanies, and they should just seek job opportunities elsewhere (without complaining), someone said to me --
David Every "qualifies" as an expert the same way as those scientists who worked long and hard to convince us that black people and/or Jews were an inferior race...
To which I responded:
Yes and no. Depends on how they present themselves. Remember my site is a counter balance to the entire media, every PC advocate and IS-cretin that is preaching their Wintel propaganda with no balance at all. [Complaining about this] is like whining about those nasty little Jews trying to defend themselves in the face of pre-WWII anti-semitism.
I made a mistake in the anti-semitism crack in that I wasn't clear enough. But I was mentally responding to the crack that I was like a scientist advocating that Jews were inferior. I was thinking about how during that time that Jewish art would not be displayed, Jewish writers were not allowed to publish, and about how many were attacking Jews that were defended their rights. People kept acting like, "let them get jobs elsewhere, or go somewhere else". The Jews were called racist propagandizers because a few were trying to stand up for their own existance and defend themselves. But I was too brief in my crack, and didn't have enough qualifiers. But like conversations, things can be clarified.
Someone else responded:
To even DARE compare the Mac-Win debate to a era that MURDERED millions of PEOPLE is horrible and should NOT be done. This is irresponsibility at its worst... maybe compare two rival football teams and you might have a good analogy--but NOT were LIVES are lost and other atrocities. I refuse to allow it.
Which was fine of them to challenge me -- it gave me an opportunity to clarify far more:
Please think a bit about what I'm saying. (I know a lot about the holocaust, and actually have an article on it going up soon). There was an antisemitic attitude in and before WWII that existed in America, Canada, and Europe that allowed for the Holocaust to happen. It was all about eliminating that which is different, "inferior" -- and then taking their things. Jews were stereotyped by misinformation, considered inferior, then tried to be eliminated.
Notice this where the quote was taken from -- completely out of context. Reread what I said in context and you get a completely different perception of what I am saying. Of course I kept qualifying that there is no comparison in deed to mass murder. But I keep trying to get into the underlying philosophies of hate and fear -- and even methods as far as hate-labeling, ignorance, stereotyping and so on.
The article about the Holocaust is in with the FDR articles. But that article is more tailored to our complacency during and before WWII, rather than the true complacency that went on or the deeper antisemitism. The Germans were not the only ones involved in the Holocaust -- most of Europe, U.S., Canada and many other countries turned their backs on what was happening. It was about attacking that which is different (those who are different), usually from a point of ignorance -- or ignoring the issue when those were attacked. Complex subject -- but I'm very concerned with the social attitudes and deep resentment that ran deep into many cultures for a generation before the Holocaust -- which allowed it's existence.
But people see what they want to see. Some ignore the relevant information or what you are trying to say, because they don't want to learn. There were many other opportunities to discuss the issue more -- and my views were clarified more.
Forget it Dave, you're emoting a chunk of plastic and an OS with a real human tragedy. To rationalize the comparison of the deaths of millions of people to the possible discontinuation and attitudes to obsolete hardware and marketing practices is beyond pompous, it's patently offensive, and beyond warped...
And I replied
No, I'm not [emoting a chunk of plastic with an a human tragedy, directly. As is obvious by my qualifiers] Please don't tell me what I'm saying, especially when you do it poorly. I'm relating the similarities in philosophy which allow humans/subculture to attack that which is different and try to eliminate it. To fail to think and understand the similarities between similar actions [philosophies] is beneath reason and is tragic. We are discussing the morality of humans that allows them to try to destroy that which is different [or have contempt for those people]. It is a fundamental flaw in many human beings, and has lead to many tragedies throughout history. The Mac is a very very minor one -- but the underlying poison is still the issue.
Remember, all this frailty and sensitivity about the issue comes from people who didn't seriously complain (and frequent) an Anti-Mac website (or two) that uses Swastika's and Macs, or other Nazi imagery to try to relate the Mac to a murderous fascist regime. Since, in my mind, they have brought up the references to racism (antisemitism) and Nazi imagery on their site, I'm trying to really discuss it. During all this, I'm trying to be very specific and discuss the fear and loathing of that which is different and stick to the attitudes of intolerance, and am stating many times that this is not the same as killing people -- just philosophical intolerance must be explored (and resisted).
Some responded politely and tried to communicate:
I suspect that the scope of the horror invoked by the image of the German Jews -- and the lingering pain felt for families of survivors - would make it difficult for many people to *hear* without it evoking images of the people *themselves.*
And I reply:
I agree that political correctness is only willing to look at the shallowest parts of some issues. That is sad. I will explain myself clearly when given the chance -- but I think all people should learn to give others the chance before they jump down their throats.
But others still don't want to listen or communicate. My words don't matter, their intentionally false impressions matter more. They want to see me as equating two things that I have tried multiple times to refute:
This is how I see your analogy between Mac elimination and the Holocaust. Like comparing a drop of water to the Pacific Ocean.
Of course I filtered out the more extreme statements, because many were calling me a revisionist and of directly comparing the two things, without reading what I said, and so on. Some wanted to get very nasty. I kept getting back to the philosophy (or trying to, with people who won't listen) --
No... more like teaching kids about erosion and channels in their back yard, by using the grand canyon as an example of what can happen.
I have views for reasons, and am willing to stand by them, and admit mistakes when I make them. What I was saying was a little loose at the start (too sloppy) -- but there was plenty of opportunity for people to understand my points if they wanted to. I kept clarifying and qualifying, and knew that conversations are often like this -- two way communication. But for it to work, people have to want to listen.
It became a waste of energy. Many didn't listen because they didn't want to. So I left the thread. But I just wanted to support my point in writing -- so that if someone read a quote (out of context), they might know the whole context of the thread. The little hate-mongers are out there using my quote out of context (taking too seperate fragments and running parts of them together to make something new) -- and I don't like that. The irony is that the hate-mongering and their use of Nazi imagery (to try to hate-label Macs and Mac users) on various anti-Mac sites all supports my exact points far more eloquently than I could. Too bad many of them don't realize it.